Intro

📍 Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we take you behind the scenes to explore integrated self leadership and help ambitious family men build lasting legacies for themselves, their tribe, and their community. I'm Scott Raven, and together we'll discover how successful leaders master a delicate balance of career advancement, personal health, financial growth, and meaningful relationships. Get ready to soar.

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Meet Rich Bishop: Founder of Mid Game Consulting

And hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Corvus Effect. I am Scott. I am honored to be joined today by Rich Bishop, founder of Mid Game Consulting, who knows that true growth happens in uncomfortable spaces. From navigating career transitions to building a consultancy that transforms businesses. Rich shows how embracing discomfort. Leads to lasting impact. We're gonna get into not only his diverse industry experience, but his holistic approach to business transformation and also how this translates to his family and his personal development. So Rich, welcome to the podcast, man.

Thanks, Scott. Good to see you.

Good to see you as well.

And yeah, rich and I know each other from a separate networking group. We always tried him that, uh, he's the show off of the group now. He is the most humble man that you are ever going to meet.

Rich's Humble Beginnings

And that's kind of where I wanna start in terms of your humble beginnings to the founding of Mid-game consulting.

Yeah, so I grew up in the New England area. I spent some time in, in Massachusetts in New Hampshire. Came down to Florida where I live now, uh, for college. Um, when I graduated, uh, met my wife at college, I. Um, settled down with the family here. Um, I jumped into a, a handful of finance and operations roles and a couple of big multinational companies.

Mm-hmm.

experience. Really enjoyed both sides of it. Very logical, step by step type of. Um, you know, roles and very analytical.

Transition to Sales and Marketing

And then when I was at Nestle, uh, had an opportunity to actually jump over to the dark side and, and join the, the sales and marketing teams.

Do you consider Do you consider it the dark side? Now that is the question.

that's right. Yeah. So with. You know, with that jump, we had a new head of sales who wanted to use data and analytics to drive the sales team to better customers and more profitable customers. And so they tapped me on the shoulder being the finance guy, and they said, Hey, you, you could probably figure this out here.

What do you think? So, yeah,

fun.

yeah, just figure it out for us, right? Sure.

Figure it out. Here's a bunch of data. See if you can make sense of it, and where do we need to go in order to grow and to be more profitable?

Building a Sales Operations Team

So a couple months spending time on this, having lots of conversations ended up, uh, that yes, we could do this. We put together some rubrics and some, um, some real easy.

Red light, green light type of analysis for the sales team to make it super easy. And and the result of that was, Hey Rich, guess what? We need you to actually build a team to manage this now going forward. So we're gonna move you out of finance and we need you to build a sales operations team here.

So that's how it started and I haven't left the sales and marketing world since.

You know, it's interesting because you have this, you come up with this solution, and now you're thrust into the position of we need you to build out a sales team and. I gotta think, I've gotta ask you, as you think back to that, and you say, okay, I know what I'm being asked to do, but I'm not sure I have the capability, the experience, the confidence that I'm gonna be able to get this done. So talk me through that, uh, journey.

Yeah, absolutely.

Embracing Discomfort and Collaboration

It's, it, it, it has to be done in a community, right? And it, it, yes, there are certain aspects that I knew well, but of course there were so many things that I didn't know. And that can be a very uncomfortable position to be in. And you hear some people talk about fake it till you make it, and,

I hate that phrase,

Pushing through. I can't stand that either.

it really comes down to surround yourself with people that have the pieces of the expertise that you know, and lean on them

and help them with the areas that you can help them with too. But make it collaborative as much as you can. And so I had a great supporting team there.

the head of sales was fantastic. The people around us and the channel marketing team were absolutely fantastic in, in pulling this together. And, and we took it as a team approach and we made sure that we could, we could build this thing up and make it as efficient as possible, um, really together.

And everybody had input to how it was going to look, because I know for sure I don't have all the answers. But I know that I can get to a really good answer if I ask enough people who do have experience that we can piece together what is right for this situation. So

that, that was a big piece of it that ended up really kind of launching the rest of my career in sales and revenue operations from there.

You know, it's so interesting as you talk about that evolution in terms of being in sales and revenue ops and being a leader and ultimately into entrepreneurship, and one of the biggest things that I've learned in my entrepreneurial journey, I. Is to have an appropriate filter in

place so that you are accepting of the wisdom of others, but at some point you could take in too much or at some point you just have to make a call. And I love to hear your journey to how you've built up that strength over time.

Yeah, a lot of trial and error.

Mm-hmm. Always

Yeah, lots of, lots of screwing things up. Um, but no, I think it, the important piece there is, is, um, understanding it when too much analysis is, is too far and I naturally have a bias to action, so I, I tend to fall short in, in waiting long enough,

right? I tend to, alright, I have an idea, let me just go and fail fast and, and make changes and tweaks from there.

And over the years I've had to balance that with, um, you know, making sure that I've got the, the right amount of input or making sure that this is really the right approach and that I've vetted the ideas from enough angles. I. That I'm confident that it's as solid as it can be, and that I don't just rush into something headlong without testing it first, at least going through the mental exercise of testing what could go wrong, what could the, um, reactions be, right?

What are the counters to this and, and how do I round out the, next steps based on those things?

which I know is a lot of what goes into the mission and value for, uh, your practice with actionable strategies, process optimization, CRM implementations, just name a few, but I'm curious how the name Mid-Game Consulting came about.

Yeah.

The Growth Mindset and Mid-Game Consulting

It, it comes a lot from that, that growth mindset and, and transformation. Right? When, when you look at successful businesses today, chances are pretty good. They didn't start off right away being the successful business that we know them as.

When, when you think about it, there are steps that they take in the middle of the game or halftime adjustments.

If you think about it in, in the football terms, that it, it's those moves that you make once you do see the playing field and you do see how things are panning out. You have to make adjustments and you have to change, and so. For these growing businesses, you know, when you start up a company to, to get the first million dollars or $2 million is tough, but once you hit that level, to hit $10 million, you drastically need to change the way that you're doing things.

Or to go from 10 to 30 million, it's another set of changes, or 32, a hundred and, and so there are these bands kind of along the way as a company grows and matures. That they have to transform and make changes to the way that they think about things to their structure. They're making those mid-game adjustments along the way to get to what their ultimate goal is.

And so when, when you look at the, the middle of the game adjustments and really being involved in helping companies to grow and to transform it, it just really seemed to fit.

And you know, one of your core values as a company I know is growth mindset, but oftentimes companies and particularly founders are so resistant to let go of what has been successful for them before it becomes.

Challenges of Letting Go

Linus is security blanket, for lack of better term, how do you work with these firms or leaders to say, I know that served you well in the past, I get it, but you gotta let it go.

Yeah. And that can be tough, right? And it, and it all really depends on the founder or the CEO or whatever the position happens to be that you're running into. 'cause it does happen in larger companies as well, that uh, somebody in the C-suite is just dead set on their ways and it. Yeah, it, it takes a, a couple of things, right?

It takes working with that growth mindset, it takes having examples and references for, you know, I used to think this way. I made these changes and now, now we're better off for it. Um, having that control I think is important for a lot of people. Um, but sometimes you can transition that control of, let me do it all myself or let me do certain things myself.

For what kind of freedom and additional responsibilities would you get if you do let some of those things go Right? And you can take a, a, founder for example. A lot of times a founder is really, really good at understanding the product that they built. Or the marketplace that they're

it's it's their baby.

it's their baby, but maybe they haven't run a business before.

They don't know how to put operations together, so they just kind of throw a bunch of systems at it. They throw a bunch of people at it and and try to make it work. But eventually you get to the point that you need some real skill and some strategy behind how you're structuring these things.

Sometimes it takes a few.

Small projects or examples to be able to show the validity of what you're trying to do, that then opens up the mindset to what else can we do out there to take advantage of this?

Right, and that's gotta be really discomforting for a successful leader, successful entrepreneur. As you talk about, you know, these firms that their seven figures are trying to go to eight, and the fact that they have to sit there and admit. I know a lot and now I'm going into a phase where I don't know as much as I used to, and I know one of the biggest things that you bring to the table with your authenticity is how your own personal experience with transitions can aid that it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be a little bit messy, but it's gonna be okay.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Personal Transitions and Leadership Development

And, and the best example that I can give of that, of a personal transition that I made is while, I was at Nestle. Before I made the jump over into sales operations, um, I, I've always enjoyed leadership development, had an opportunity to learn under the Great John Maxwell of how

to leadership, coaching, training, all of those.

I became certified as a part of his program. Absolutely phenomenal experience. Um, and I ended up diving head first into wanting to create a, a leadership coaching and development. Um. Company and, and consultancy. While I was still working full-time as a finance manager with two young children at home, it, it just all became

And the wife is looking at you sideways saying You ought do what?

You want to do what? Yeah, I told her I wanted to write a book and she said, yeah, good luck finding that time. So I did, it's called Childlike Leadership and it's on Amazon.

There you go.

uh, but. With that. I was trying so hard to, to make that work, but other important aspects of the life of my life just weren't quite holding up.

And so I did feel like I was running my head into a wall and it, it was right about that time that I ended up deciding, you know what I, I need to put this aside. Um, had a great opportunity even within Nestle to do some leadership programs because they really embraced what I, what I was doing, and. Some of the exposure that I got in putting one of those leadership programs together is what opened up the door to what eventually became me jumping over into the, um, the sales operations role and building out that team.

And there was a direct link between one and the other. So for me to transition there, I was really focused on trying to create this leadership consultancy.

Mm-hmm.

Wasn't the right timing, wasn't the right message. Whatever it was that wasn't working, I felt defeated when I had to give it up. But right around the corner was another opportunity that, that, that work had led me to, and

so

the door closes, there's a window that opens.

absolutely.

And I love that.

Balancing Family and Entrepreneurship

And I love that story because one of the things that we preach here in Corvus is we firmly believe that men, particularly family oriented men, should not have to sacrifice. Family and wellbeing in order to achieve success in their life. And it sounds like through this journey that you have been on that you have been able to find a way to integrate those roles between entrepreneur and family, man and husband, and even to yourself in terms of self-care. You found a way to integrate all of these roles together.

Yeah. It, to me it's a, it's an absolute must. I'm a firm believer that the most important job that I will ever have is as a father,

right? My, my legacy is in my kids and in what I teach them, and.

How I can help them, right? So it doesn't matter whether I'm CEO of a Fortune 500 company or whatever, if, if my kids aren't prepared for life, that is the most important thing for me.

The Importance of Being Present

And so when, when I was growing up in the eighties, I, I like to say my mom was a work from home og. She, uh. She went to school and learned how to become a medical transcriptionist so that she could be at home with my sister and I. So she would go in the morning when we were at school to the office, the doctor's office, pick up the tapes

of the doctors and what they were transcribing, and then she'd bring them home with her big, you know, manila envelope full of the tapes and, and she'd type up all of the notes and then bring them back to the, to the practice.

She was there at home for us when we got home from school to help us with homework and so on. And that just made such an impression on me and was such a big part of helping to shape me and, and who I am that I wanted to be able to give that back to my kids. So being, being an entrepreneur, working from home, being able to take them to dance lessons and practice, right?

Helping them with the homework, that's such an important aspect of what we do.

You know, it's interesting that you bring that up. I'm literally, as soon as we get done, gonna pick up my son and take him over to the baseball diamond 'cause he's got a game this afternoon. But it's very, shall I say, I. Now and modern, that that viewpoint is embraced by men. You go back to where you were in 1980s, 1990s, that's not something that was embraced by men.

There was definitely a polarity, if you will, in terms of my place is the office, my place is as a provider. My place is not to. Put my work down in order to be there for my kids. And you and a lot of other men are part of this growing generation of saying, no, no, no, we're not doing that anymore.

Yeah, that's right.

Preparing the Next Generation

And you know, it's interesting, I had an experience, uh, probably about 10, 15 years ago where I was on a work trip.

I was flying home from Toronto, um, and I got on the plane and I'm the type of person, I don't like to chat it up

when I'm on the plane. I like to put my headphones on. I like to listen to my music or read my book.

That's my quiet

down. I, I, I've done my talk in, you know, it's chill time.

That's it. It's chill time. And this, this one particular trip, it was a 10 o'clock at night flight. It had been a long day. I really did not wanna talk to anybody.

And I sat down in this, this gentleman who was of retirement age, uh, started chatting me up and I'm like, all right, fine. Just kind of. Kind of Kind of appeasing being nice.

Didn't, didn't want to be rude, but just as we were pushing back from the gate, I went, literally was reaching down in my bag to grab my headphones and really give the signal of, okay, I'm done. Um, and it was right at that time that he said, oh, and that's why I'm in the process of handing my companies over to my sons.

And I went, okay, you got my attention now. So I put the, put the headphones back down and he went on to tell me about how. His, his companies, a couple of very large companies in Canada, he was stepping into a chairman role in moving his sons into CEO roles. So we had a, a fantastic conversation all the way back about how to prepare your kids to be able to take on those roles and to be ready for the real life after school.

And I was just so impressed with what he did. He gave me some really good insights that I've been trying to, to put in place ever since.

I can imagine that that has to be one of the most harrowing things that somebody could go through from the standpoint that you've built this practice up, you want to see it continue. Beyond you, for lack of a better term. You would love it if it stayed in the family and you would hate it if by passing it to the family that it all fell to pieces. That's gotta be one of the most nerve wracking journeys that you gotta go through.

I, I think in many ways it can be if you don't know your kids well

enough. Right. And that may be controversial to say, but it, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, that that. If you're working with them as they continue to grow up, helping them with baseball, playing catch with them in the yard, giving them swing tips or.

Allowing them to listen in on some of the work calls that you have so that they can hear some of the interaction and hear what's happening. They may not understand it all, but after a few of those, you're, you could be really surprised with the level of questions and level of, of answers even that they'd be giving you after some of those calls.

Hey, dad, when, when they said this, is this what they meant? All right, so

over time you can, you can kind of build that in, and as you have those conversations, you can really get to know your kids in the way that they think, which will then obviously lead to a lot more confidence when you get down the road.

Building Trust Through Vulnerability

And I know another big, uh, thing that you put a lot of credence in is building trust through vulnerability. And I wanna focus on your role as a father. You and I grew up in a time, in an era I. Where men, fathers were most notably not allowed to show any imperfections or whatnot, right? And now in today's age, it's much more necessary for boys to see the holistic and authentic man that is their father, so that they have a real understanding of what it is to be a modern day man in this world.

Yeah, for sure. I think there's, there's a balance to be struck though, right? Because, because you don't want to go too far in the direction of, of vulnerability either, because I may have some thoughts of, all right, am I crazy or I'm really frustrated, am I, and I'm not getting where I want to at this point in time.

God, am I a loser? Like sometimes that, that, Thought pattern can kind of creep in. And it's not okay to let your

that.

that's, that's the itty bitty shitty committee that will turn you into your own worst enemy real

Exactly. Exactly. So yes. Sharing, you know what, Hey, I had a vulnerable moment. This is, I, I wasn't feeling great, but I knew that if we stuck with it long enough that we get through it. Right. Or I knew that if we talked out the disagreement that your mom and I had that. That we would get through it and, and we would figure it out.

And now here we are because we talked about it. Right? You can, you can build in the lessons through that vulnerability so that they can see the full picture of, of from start to finish, kind of what you go through and what happens. But they don't need every single detail along the way.

Right, and I know that that's one of the big things that you've taken from your personal life into your professional life because part of what you help companies go through is change transformation and the fact that it's gonna be, I. Hard at first, messy in the middle, but beautiful at the

end. But these people who are going through the change, need support, and everybody's support that is necessary for them to feel safe during this transition is a little bit different.

And that's part of what you bring from your own experience?

Effective Change Management

Absolutely, and, and when you're going through a big change or a transformation, it's really important to make sure that everybody possible has a say. In, in where you're going, right? That, that you bring them into the strategy building where it makes sense to, so that there is a sense of ownership of the outcome so that they know what we're working toward and they can see the, the vision of the end result,

which gives them a lot more ownership in the process, in in how it progresses, where change does not go well. Is when management comes from on high and says, this is where we're going, whether you like it or not it. Now everybody's fearing for their jobs. They're not comfortable because they don't know what's happening or what's gonna take place when everything is here. In fact, some of them can even sabotage the change because they don't want that change to happen.

So. Bringing them in upfront, supporting them along the way is the way to make sure that especially these large transformations that can take place are effective and that everybody is a part of it.

Empathy in Leadership

You know, I'm gonna key on that word effective because one of the other things that you talk about is the effective use of empathy. And this is so challenging to get right. I. In the professional arena too little. And to your point, you're gonna get a lot of people who are resistant 'cause they don't feel a part of it, and they're being told to do things right.

Too much and the people will run over you In terms of, you know, not respecting your, uh, point of view. As a leader,

where is the line for effective empathy in this professional arena?

Yeah, I think it comes down to there's this concept of psychological safety, right? Um, there have been a lot of studies on this, but psychological safety really is a foundation of culture.

I. And building a culture where people feel safe to. To speak out or to give their opinion in a productive way, right?

Not in a negative way, but in a productive way and building around the right kind of values for the company and for your team even. Um, if you have those things in place, then the, empathy side of things. Almost comes naturally because you're working with the same set of values. We all know where we're going at the end.

There's buy-in to what the end result is. Maybe we disagree about steps one, two, and three, but we know where we're going at the end, and you have that common ground to work from. So there's room for empathy in the sense of understanding where the other person is coming from. But you may not necessarily agree, and I can understand where you're coming from.

There is the empathy, but we've decided that this is the end result and this is where we're going. I would really like your help in that. Let's go together.

Yeah. And I know that, uh, is part of, again, getting back to some of the core values that you guys have in terms of proactive leadership, results-driven execution, hands-on, problem solving. It's, yes, I wanna respect. The emotions that you may feel regarding this decision or the concerns that you may have, but at the end of the day, we're trying to create output and impact, and I want you to be part of that journey.

Would that be a fair statement?

That's a very good way to put it. At the end of the day, we're, we're all looking for results and we want to be able to do this together. So there, there are a lot of leaders unfortunately that will go for results. Despite the people,

or they'll go for the results by stepping on the people to get there, and that's not at all what we're going for.

This is a journey together. Us as a company with mid-game consulting, but also with our clients. This is a partnership that we're going to get you there together and make sure that you're in a good spot by the end.

If you were to sum up what would be the best testimony, I want to put that in quotes that somebody could give you regarding mid game consulting. I. What would be some of the common traits? What would you want to hear?

There are a couple of things that we've. We've heard already to this point, which I think check, check that box, which is, you know, rich, we didn't know where to go,

or we knew where to go. We just didn't know how to get there,

and we didn't think that we could end up getting there, and you helped us to see that we could get there.

Right, and not you got us there, but you helped us to get there. That right there is by far the the biggest compliment that we could ever receive. That, again, coming down to the partnership side of things, we're going to roll up our sleeves and we're gonna get into this mess together. And we're gonna help you see what good looks like, and we're gonna work on that and refine it, and we're gonna get out on the other side, and you're gonna be in a much better spot because of it, and you're gonna be able to continue running with it from there.

And we tie this into one of the principles of Corvus, which is effective self-leadership being a byproduct of self-awareness, self-belief, and self-accountability. Right. Where do you find that you, I. Work with these leaders and firms the most in terms of driving effective self-leadership at the person level, such that the entity achieves what it's supposed to do.

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I would say that working with the, the leaders. And having a good sense of what's happening with their team,

right. And diving in with their team members to understand where they are in all of this and what the journey is. So a leader sometimes can be disconnected from the day-to-day of what the team is going through and what they're doing because the, the leader gets their report so they're happy and, and they just kind of keep going.

So making that connection to, okay. We know that we need to put this new lead management process in place, for example, but you've got a, a marketing director, you've got a marketing operations person that hasn't worked with this type of process before. I. The leader doesn't necessarily know that or empathize with what the day-to-day is like.

So making the connection there and helping the leader to see some of those things and the challenges that that creates,

but then also working with the team to help their self-belief and help with some of the tactics of how do you get to that end result effectively.

Because there's the classic statement that every company has. People are our most valuable asset, but they tend to do it in one of two different ways, either. Utilize the person as an asset until they can't produce anymore than replace or develop and cultivate the person to the point of not only delivery now, but delivery into the future. How through your work do you. Push companies through door number two. So these are stories that not only did the company look back with fondness, but the individual employees look back with in fondness.

Yeah, and I'll tell you from my career as an employee in building some of these teams, some of the most. Rewarding experiences were when some of my team members had grown to the point that we couldn't keep them because they had gotten to be, you know, too skilled or.

They graduated.

They graduated. Right? And, and that was a celebration.

We didn't try to keep them, we didn't try to keep 'em in a box. We genuinely looked to find a place that made sense for them, but when that didn't occur, okay, we were happy for you to get this promotion or this big, you know, jump. Um, and so I think in many ways within, within the companies that we work, uh.

Obviously you wanna make sure that good talent stays internal as long as possible and that the company is growing as that talent grows. Um, sometimes that can be tough, especially within individual departments, but

as a whole, if the company is growing and evolving, then there should be places where some of that talent that's homegrown can continue to grow and flourish.

Yes, absolutely.

Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Well, rich, as we begin to start to wind down this episode, I always, uh, start the wind down with a tip of the cap to Randy Posh is the last lecture and his concept of the head fake. In his book, he said, message was, this this story was for my kids. So first things first. We'll talk about the next generation of leaders and entrepreneurs.

The next wave that may be listening to this particular podcast, what do you want them to take away from your wisdom?

The biggest thing is to be comfortable being uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm.

There are going to be transitions that take place in life. There are going to be, um, times where something maybe fails in the moment or doesn't work out in the moment, and it's okay to sit in that for a little while, right? When, when you feel like a failure or you feel like something has gone wrong, whether it be a relationship or a job, it, it's okay to sit in that because.

That's telling you that something can change and grow here, and

too many people, I think, push those feelings aside and either drown them out with drugs and alcohol or, or they push them aside and just move on to whatever the next thing is.

It's so important to sit there and ruminate on that and, and say, okay, what can I take from this that makes me better?

So that next time, I'm more comfortable when I'm in this position because I know there's, there's another side to it. But second of all, making sure that I'm growing as a person and getting better as a result of what we've just gone through.

And as a public service announcement, uh, for those who think that they can do it, uh, via alcohol, I'm here to tell you. Nope, you can't. I know it firsthand. So, uh, but going a little bit deeper now, let's bring it down to your family and your kids, and they're listening to this podcast episode. What do you want them to take away?

Yeah, I, I think in many ways it's, it's the same thing. Um, I really wouldn't say that it's different for anybody kind of outside of my family versus in, um, but at this point, my girls already know this.

They're 17 and 14 now. They dance competitively. We, we pour ourselves into them as much as we possibly can.

Um, but through some of their dance and through some of the things that they have going on at their school, I. They've gone through some adversity and, and we've talked to them about, Hey, it's okay. What are you learning from this? You know, you can get back on the horse and we can get through this. Right?

And Right? just to see them grow over time through some of that adversity, it, it helps me to know that, that it is sticking. It's, it's getting there.

And I'm gonna throw a bonus question that I just came up with.

I love it.

We're five years down the road, y'all are empty nesters. Your girls are out of the house, one of them gives you a call. What's that conversation like?

Oh man, I don't wanna fast forward as much as possible.

But, uh, with that said, you know, it's, it, we've got a great relationship now and I would hope that that continues, right? So we're talking about what, what their day was like, some of the things that they're working with. My, my oldest wants to be a, a doctor and my youngest wants to be, um, you know, in marine biology or an engineer, one of the two.

And, and those are fascinating topics, right? So to be able to talk about what's important to them. And hear them to be alive because they're really enjoying what they're doing. That ultimately is, is the goal.

Amen. I would love that for, uh, my kids, although I've got more runway than you, and I'm very thankful for that. I'll put it that way. Rich, how can people get in touch with you or learn more about you, man?

Yeah, so you can go to mid game consulting.com, mid game consulting.com, uh, for more information about, uh, mid game, but also LinkedIn is a great place. So if you want to find me directly, um, my page is Rich Bishop two, and that's the number two. So if you go to linkedin.com/rich Bishop two, you should be able to find me there.

It would be great to connect.

Absolutely, we'll put those, uh, links in the show notes and also, uh, the book, uh, let's, uh, get that book in there as well. So you said that that was up on Amazon, right?

Yeah, it's called Childlike Leadership, uh, and it's up on Amazon and it's about the leadership lessons that we can learn by watching our children in a different light. So rather than teaching our kids. All of these lessons, which we all know that we're supposed to do, there are actually some reminders and things that we can learn from ourselves by watching our children grow up and go through some of the challenges that they do.

Oh, I learn all the time through my kids and like you seeing some of the way that my kids have handled an adverse situations so young and that I take a lesson from them in terms of they have far more wisdom than I had at that age. I'll put it that way. So, absolutely.

A lot of

resilience.

Any, any final words before we close this episode out?

No, Scott, it was, it was great chatting with you. I really appreciate all that you're doing for the men out there. There's not enough support for, um, family men being able to talk about some of these things and being able to truly focus on their own leadership within the house, um, and within themselves.

So continue doing what you're doing. I'm a really big fan. Thank you.

I will do so, man. You know, keep doing what you're doing. Keep being that shining example, not just for me, but for the men who aspire to be able to soar towards their legacy. So Rich, thank you so much for being on the podcast. For all of y'all listening, I. Thank you so much for taking your time. I hope you appreciated the wisdom here. Please feel free to subscribe and share with those in your inner circle who could use this message as well. And we will see you next time on the next episode of The Corvus Effect. care, y'all.

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Outro

Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. To access today's show notes, resources, and links mentioned in this episode, visit www.thecorvuseffect.com While you're there, you'll find links to our free tools and resources to evaluate where you currently stand versus your aspirations with personalized recommendations for action. If you found value in today's episode, Please take a moment to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share with those who may benefit from it. You won't want to miss future conversations that could transform your approach to leadership and life. Join me next episode as we continue our journey towards building lasting legacies that matter. Remember, it's time to soar towards your legacy.