Intro

📍 Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we take you behind the scenes to explore integrated self leadership and help ambitious family men build lasting legacies for themselves, their tribe, and their community. I'm Scott Raven, and together we'll discover how successful leaders master a delicate balance of career advancement, personal health, financial growth, and meaningful relationships. Get ready to soar.

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Meet the Guest: Colonel J. Scot Heathman

And hello everybody. Welcome back to this episode of the Corvus Effect.

And we've got some true Scott power going on this episode. Cause I'm Scott. And today I am joined by retired Colonel J. Scott Heathman, a true Jedi master of leadership who's faced down everything from combat missions. to a brain tumor with unwavering courage. As a former commander of Scott Air Force Base, see another Scott, and founder of Elevating Others, Scott helps leaders harness their inner force and create extraordinary.

impact he does through his servant leadership philosophy, the things that he learned with his brain tumor journey and his deep passion for of all things, Star Wars. So Mr. Heathman, welcome to the podcast and may the force be with you.

Hey, may the force be with you as well. Thank you for having me today.

Oh, it's my pleasure. It is my pleasure. And let's just dive in right where I ended, uh, that intro in terms of, I always like to personify.

A Journey with the Force: Star Wars Influence

the folks that I have on this podcast a bit, and you are a die hard Star Wars fan. I am also because I was literally born the day that the very original Star Wars A New Hope was theatrically released.

So I definitely have the Force in my blood, but tell me about your journey to being part of the Force.

Yeah, you know, um, I wasn't much older than you. I was three years old when, uh, I saw the movie. Uh, not, not on the day it came out. It was probably a couple weeks later, you know, that my parents took me. But, you know, I do remember seeing it at the theater in, uh, uh, May or early June of 1977. And, you know, even, I'll say even today, and, You know, I don't think there's, uh, that, I don't think there's a weekend that goes by where there isn't a rerun of some Star Wars episode

on

classics, man. They never get old.

you get sucked in and I caught the original episode four and I'm looking at it and I'm like, you know, this thing just doesn't age to me.

timeless. I mean, at this point, it's, what, 48 years at this point, if I'm doing the math correctly?

Lucasfilm has been around for over 50 so, um, yeah it's, I mean it's It's just incredible, um, and it follows a follows classic, obviously, storyline, right? A hero's journey, um, you know, a, a timeless, uh, structure to a movie that just always works, and, uh, obviously you've got, uh, an incredible, um, director, and, and George Lucas who kind of brought this whole universe to life, but for me, What it set in motion for me was, how do I do that?

Meaning like, how do I fly the Millennium Falcon? Or how do I get to go fly an X Wing? Um, you know, is that a possibility for me? I mean, um, yeah, maybe they weren't as clearly defined at age three, but that kind of set into motion that that would be cool to do someday, and, you know, I really did kind of follow that journey of.

Leaving home at some point, um, finding a way to go fly airplanes and go on adventures. And that's what it ended up being in the Air Force for me.

yeah, and let's, you know, great segue because I do want to get into the military leadership and, you know, thank you very much for your service.

Military Leadership and Personal Evolution

I appreciate all the people who serve on behalf of us all, but specifically, I want to, uh, Dig a little deeper in terms of your personal evolution as a byproduct of developing your leadership in the military and how that has aided you to become the force that you are today.

Yeah, I I think one of the biggest things that, um, really steered me towards a path and probably giving me the awareness of the kind of leadership style that I always had, but I didn't really quite know the words to put to it. I would say my leadership style is very much servant leadership. Yeah. I clearly resonate with that and it's been a style since I was a young boy all the way to current day.

I was always doing a lot of things in the community. You know, I was a 4 H'er for 10 years. Uh, I served at both the local, county, and state levels. Um, I was always doing projects in the community. You know, everything from Meals on Wheels to, you know, you know, bringing awareness to the community and other facets.

The Philosophy of Servant Leadership

Um, but even when I went off to college, um, you know, it was tutoring. I went to school in the South side of Chicago, was tutoring at schools in the, in the neighborhood on the South side of Chicago. And, you know, I, I just felt like, yeah, you know, we, we have jobs or education we're pursuing, you know, we always got this primary thing that we're going after, but.

That didn't fill me enough. I always needed some sort of a community project where I felt like I was giving back because of what I have received in my life.

hmm. It's beautiful.

Yeah, you know, we didn't grow up with a lot of money. My, my parents were not wealthy. Uh, we were lower middle class growing up. Um, you know, they worked really hard to get to where they were at.

Um, and I wanted to do the same for me because I wanted it to, I wanted to be proud of how I got myself there, uh, to whatever their met and, you know, again, flying was the goal. And so I did pursue that pretty hardcore in, uh, You know, that meant getting good grades and competing and eventually got that pilot slot, but you know, you don't fly, uh, you don't focus on being the best pilot in the world every single day of your Air Force career.

You certainly try in those moments. But, um, at some point as an officer in the military, you're expected from day one to be a leader. And eventually, you know, if you continue to do well and promote and perform, well, they just give you more levels of responsibility and people. And, uh, So, about midway through the career, there's a shift that occurs that, hey, as a field grade officer, no longer a company grade, a younger officer, you're kind of in these pretty important jobs, things like, uh, squadron command, where you're now in command of an entire unit of airplanes and people.

And, or a base commander, and you're now in charge of carrying and feeding and securing 14, 000 people. I

mean

There's no manual that tells you how to do that, right, but

no,

great people in front of you that have done that, you

yeah, and you know, it's so beautiful that you say this because I want to segue into your concept that self command is the foundation.

Command with Courage: Self Leadership

We here on the Corpus Effect say the number one thing that we have to do in order to truly pursue our legacy is to develop. Great self leadership through self awareness, self belief, and self accountability.

So to hear you echo that through the phrase self command definitely hits home. How do you define self command to others? How do you tell them this is what self command looks like?

yeah, um, it's, you know, I, my personal brand is Command with Courage, and, uh, I love that because I think it really does encompass the, the 25 years I've spent in the military growing. My own leadership and my own skills. but it also encompasses me as well. And the number one principle in that is command of yourself.

So to me, that is the foundational principle. Because at the end of the day, you know, you can take classes on this and get upskilled on, on these things over here. And you can listen to this, this, webinar and attend this conference. But in those times when you're struggling more often than not, you, you, you, you're probably just with yourself and not with a gigantic team.

Uh, you have to understand what's happening internally. And, and then choose, and I'll say that word very carefully, choose, because sometimes we don't believe it actually is a choice. We have to choose the attitude that we're going to point to it. Uh, which are we going to be, uh, a direct and disrespectful to people about it?

Or are we going to be direct and kind about how we're going to act out, you know, uh, and give somebody maybe some corrective feedback, uh, things like that. It's about self awareness too, which I think is the foundation. that every leader needs to be building on today.

You know, I'm looking through some of these seven key principles to your practice, and I will recite them for everybody, but some of them just resonated in just that. You obviously talked about principle number one, command of yourself, actions and behaviors. Your second one definitely came through with that response, operate with optimism in practice.

All areas of your life, uh, you have other words in terms of Unleash Your Empathy, Recognize, Understand, and Manage Your Emotions, Ask More Questions, Grow Your Resilience From Adversity, Embrace Your Vulnerability, and Use It As A Superpower. I'm looking at this list. It doesn't feel very military oriented, and you know, I've never was in the military, I'm outside looking in, right?

But it just doesn't feel very military oriented, yet that was the birthplace of this list, if I'm understanding it correctly.

I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, and if you look at the beginning of the, the letter of each of those principles, it spells out the word courage. And, um, I've had, you know, it's funny you said that. I had a couple of people tell me that, uh, over the past couple of months. And they're like, this doesn't sound like the military.

And I said, you know, maybe it's because we haven't, again, the military. haven't spent enough time with our civilian counterparts to really understand that we're actually more in alignment than we really believe. You know, think everybody's impression, and I will say this from experience of bringing out some incredible speakers out to the base, um, and I did an event one time and it was a leadership event.

We brought out, uh, folks like Claude Silver, uh, uh, Bob Barron, uh, Sylvie DiGiusto. These are These are top premier keynote speakers, and they had never been around a military environment before, but when they came out to the base, they were like, I had no idea how, like, how much you are like me. Like, I thought you were gonna be like Pat Naskin, you know, telling everybody what to do.

No, you know, there's a time and a place, right? I, you know, and just like any athlete, a professional athlete, you know, uh, let's take an F1 driver. When they get into a car, it's all business. When I, when I get into an airplane, it's all business. You know, um, if, if I'm doing other training environments, it's all business.

All those other times when we're continuing to develop each other and we're taking care of each other's families and we're trying to grow, um, Airmen to promote and and bring them up through the ranks. There's very real things going on just like there are in any Corporation, you know, we still have problems where we have communication breakdowns We have collaborations that maybe didn't start off on the right foot, you know We have people that maybe lose their cool more often than they probably need to I have failed at all of this.

So every single one of those principles, I am not an expert in, I try to get better at all of them all the time and it takes work, but I have learned through those failures and I just kind of figured that, you know what, these are the seven that I feel that are one, timeless, two, uh, you can always spend time on upskilling and, and three, it doesn't matter what generation you are, these all matter.

These are not generation specific.

Yes, they do.

um, that's

why I feel like they're just so important these days.

know, one of the thing that really struck me as you and I were getting ready for this episode, and you mentioned this, and I thought to myself when I heard this.

The Power of Emotional Intelligence

This does not sound military, no, right, is how through all this you came to find the power of emotional intelligence.

I'm sorry, outside looking in, I, I can't put these two things together, but for you, this is a staple of what you teach, particularly when applied appropriately to help drive human connection towards objectives.

Most of the time when I'm working with leaders, um, and let's say, I'll just make up a situation here. Let's say a chief marketing officer approaches me and wants some executive coaching and they're like, Hey, I've been told I need to work on my executive presence. Okay, we'll unearth and evoke some awareness in that area.

But more often than not, what I find is there's some gaps somewhere between Um, Components of Emotional Intelligence, which tends to be, in my eyes, a very foundational skill set for, Whether you're a leader or not, you can work on it right now as a young boy or girl, or you can work on it when you're 95 years old.

It doesn't matter, um, because that skill is something that you can actually change at any point in your life. It has nothing to do with your personality. It has nothing to do with your IQ. It has everything to do with how you recognize, understand, and manage not only your emotions, but also those of your teammates around you.

And when I look at breakdowns, again, even in a military construct, like, hey, how did, why did we not perform at our best today? You know, um, what was going on? Maybe there were some communication breakdowns. Well, why did we have that communication breakdown? Well, you know, the guy's kind of, he was kind of a jerk to me the other day.

And I'm like, Oh, wait a minute. So now you're hesitant to, to talk to him during this environment. You know, so let's, let's go there. It's usually something deeper and it's something that they're either missing in their self awareness. They let their emotions get the best of them. So their self management got out of control.

Um, they didn't pick up clues of folks around them. So their social competencies are a little bit out of whack. And, and that those three areas form really the, the ingredients for overall relationship management. So

to me, that is the, I think where you can almost draw a line back to almost everything is let's start with EQ.

You know, it's so interesting to hear you talk about these after action reviews and reflecting on the adversity that may have come up in a situation or mission, because

Overcoming Adversity: Battling a Brain Tumor

I know one of your core values. is resilience born from the journey and fight that you had to do to overcome a brain tumor. And I wanted to explore that a little bit deeper with this audience to, you know, we hear this all the time in terms of people battling cancer, right?

For those people who are fortunate enough to have never lived it, myself included, We don't know what that entails in terms of the inner psyche and what it does to us. So I'd love for you to explore that a little bit more with the audience.

Yeah, I, I'm still a little bit naive to it all, you know, because, you know, it just came out of nowhere. Uh, uh, my wife and I got rear ended at a stoplight and, uh, uh, through the course of some MRIs in the, in the week or so later, as they're looking at some, you know, damage to my neck and stuff, uh, the flight doc called me and he said, Hey, Um, you know, your neck is looking okay.

There is some damage, but, um, do you know you have a brain tumor? And I'm like, no. And at that particular moment, I was actually in the, in the, clinic, uh, with my wife, uh, for her pre op, cause she was about to have a hip replacement. So here I, my mind is focused on her. I just hear you have a brain tumor, Scotty.

Oh, that's nice. I get back to my wife.

So.

And you're trying to say, I can't focus on that

right now. Thank you.

Um, the mission's over here right now, you know, so, um, yeah, it wasn't really till I really got back into the car and we were driving home after a pre op that, you know, I started explaining to her about the phone call I got and, you know, then it really started to hit, like, Wow.

Um, you know, I had an uncle who had brain tumors that, uh, he passed away from years ago,

you know, but that's about the only experience of someone like kind of in my inner sphere that I could point to that had gone through that. I really had no conception of it. And, you know, so for about a year we watched it because it wasn't affecting me.

Like, I didn't know until I had this car accident.

Yeah, I was about to say, did you have any symptoms that you look back and you say those were silent signals that this may be happening?

No, no, like I wasn't starting to solve complex, uh, equations and math and stuff like that, that, uh, uh,

you know,

you know, you could be your own John Nash. That's

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, uh, no, nothing. I didn't gain any superpowers and then wonder, huh, I wonder where that's coming from. Um, no, it was really nothing leading up to it. And then, uh, in January of 2020,

Mm hmm.

um, I had, uh, probably like my, I don't know, 15th MRI, you know, after the whole year, we've been watching this thing.

And, um, Um, they said, Hey, it's looking like it's growing, you know, it's a, it's a little bit of an aggressive growing. And about a week after that, MRI, I started noticing a little bit of a, a, a limp in my walk and my, uh, dexterity was kind of off. So that was kind of the trigger for me to like, okay, I need to call that neurosurgeon, let him know what's going on.

And, and then he scheduled the surgery for, um, it'll be five years tomorrow, February, February 13th, 2020.

Wow. And, you know, just to put timing and context, right, this is the beginning of the COVID, like, right, you know, I

remember that COVID first hit the States in late February, early March, and then, you know, the world started to shut down, right? So, you know, at this point, we're hearing about this virus going on mainly in China, but, you know, It's like, thank your lucky stars that you got this caught and got everything in before things got a lot more difficult for you.

yeah, you know, the timing of this was really interesting in a lot of different ways. Um, I had been, I had taken command of Scott Air Force Base in the summer of, uh, 2019. So I had about six months before all of a sudden I'm telling my, my deputy commander, guess what, uh, you're going to be in charge for a little while.

I don't know what, if and when I'm coming back.

Um, so he literally took, uh, commanded the wing.

Recovery and Resilience

I went through about a 10 hour surgery, um, and then when I woke up, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't see. I'm deaf in this ear still today. Um, I can't feel half my face today. Um, I couldn't walk. I could barely talk.

I couldn't see cause I had double vision. My eyes were all over the place. Um, and it was like, You know, there was no real preparation for that because they don't really know, right? Everybody's so biologically different and they don't really know until you get in and see this tumor. Like, where, where is this thing growing into?

MRIs are pretty good. but they don't show you everything. But, um, so they were able to get almost all of it out. And, um, you know, as a precaution later down the road, uh, once I got to a place of better healing, I ended up going through radiation treatment. So, you know, I was told maybe six, eight, 10 months, I'll be back on my feet.

And, um, You know, I literally was out, you know, walking the neighborhood with a walker, um, because I would fall down without that thing and, uh, going to therapy multiple times a week, occupational, speech, uh, physical. And, uh, in about four months I was passing my fitness tests. I was able to run, um, maybe not a straight line on the track.

I had a little bit of a balance issue. I still do a tiny bit, but, um, I could, I could run an eight minute pace versus a You know, not falling over, you know?

You know what? You're, you're very impressive. Somebody who's, uh, run, uh, you know, marathons in his past, but never ran a marathon, uh, below a 11, you know, uh, 1040 pace, right? That, uh, you know, eight minute miles. That's very impressive. I got to imagine though, through that, because you had put. Such stock in terms of your physical health, obviously being the military, et cetera, right, that not having your full faculties and having to do the reps and truck through to get back to where you were, that, yeah, you were committed to your own personal mission.

That didn't mean it was easy. That didn't mean that you didn't feel anything from that, from that mission.

Yeah, it's, you know, I, I'm still very proud of how I tackled this thing because when I think about it. It was a monumental

undertaking, and especially in the time frame I was able to get back on my feet. Uh, I do remember at one point, I was walking around with an eyepatch, and my walker and the four star general, uh, she

lived in

the same neighborhood. I was

a

out there.

pirate, yeah. Um, you know, she, uh, all the generals lived in the same neighborhood, and I lived in the same neighborhood with them as the base commander, and

She drilled by and she's like, Scotty, how you doing? And I said, I'm doing great, ma'am. And I said, Hey, do you think like maybe in a month, if I'm feeling pretty good, I can come back to work?

And she's like, No.

no. Um, she's like, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you when you can come back to work. But, uh, I had to, I had to convince her that, um, um, responsibly. She's like, the last thing I want you to do is take out the new transmission and blow it. I don't want, like, I can't afford you to do that to yourself.

So, you take the time you need to heal. I had great leadership that backed me, and it wasn't on any of their timelines, it was on mine. Let's just let your body do what it needs to do and don't get too aggressive. And I think because I was so naive to really what was going on. Um, and I will say I did not Google everything about this.

Like I know some people love to Google.

That's probably better off that

Yeah, I just said, you know what? I can't control what's happening right now anyway. So let me control what I can control and get life to something more simple and that became such an easier way to navigate. So when I got back to work, um, I still had a lot of unknowns.

It was tougher than I thought that first day in the office,

you know, just the information, You take in, I was exhausted. And then I had to go through radiation treatments, uh, every day, uh, except the weekends for seven weeks in August and September. And, uh, that takes a lot out of you too, but I was still able to figure out my schedule.

But, you know, going back to the COVID piece. COVID slowed the world down enough, I think, in this, for me in particular, it kind of helped me because as a base commander, yeah, we work all this stuff during the day, we got night events as well, and sometimes it's multiple nights a week, but a lot of that, like the external engagement stuff that we would be doing with like local mayors or community leaders and all that stuff stopped.

And in a way that kind of helped me, um, because it just kept things a little bit more in control. So I'm like, you know what? Um, this is a hard enough crisis dealing with COVID. Um, I'm also dealing with an internal thing here. Um, yeah, I don't need to be asking for anything more. Um, and, and I'm so proud of the fact that we never lost one single flying mission due to COVID,

Wow.

not a single one and not a single air medical evacuation mission.

I mean,

that's culture right

it's, it is amazing what the leaders did.

absolute culture and I use that. So, you know, incredible story.

The Importance of Small Things in Leadership

And I want to use that as a segue to the work that you do today through elevating others and specifically Creating cultures of growth while balancing between mission and people.

Mm hmm.

Those seem like such simple sentences, yet they're incredibly hard to see in practice.

Yeah. So easy to say. Yeah, so easy to say,

right? Um, it's the small things that actually do matter, you know? And, and I think sometimes we're like, ah, we gotta get after the big rocks. I'm like, no, actually the fact that these two people, this manager and, or this supervisor and subordinate, the fact that they don't get along,

because of what they particularly do.

Maybe it's a certain skill or task that they perform. That's critical. If they're not getting along, that team is not firing off cylinders, which means performance is going down.

Emotional Intelligence and Performance

Well, you asked again, you know, earlier about EQ. It doesn't sound militaristic enough. Well, when you talk about emotional intelligence, equaling performance, higher levels of performance, well, now you're talking our game.

I mean, that's where we live is I want to take an airman and elevate them to the highest level that they don't even think they can get to, but not so high that they're going to crash and burn either, right? There's kind of that tipping point. And, and what I started to realize, and again, with the help of the leaders that were around me, you know, uh, my teammates, They may have been subordinates, but I took it very seriously when they approached me and said, Hey boss, something isn't working out with this policy or this, you know, can we take a look?

Feedback and Leadership

I'm like, to me, that's feedback. And what leaders don't do enough, the higher they get, they need to be asking for more feedback

because

hmm.

you don't get much at

the top. You know, everybody tells you, Hey, how are you doing? Oh, I'm doing great, sir. Everything's awesome.

Right, you don't want to be the one to, you know, you know, put egg on your face, but, you know, uh, I often talk about the alphabets, uh, analogy, right? If you have two hands and somebody's pouring you a whole box of alphabets, Well, you're only going to hold so many of those alphabets, but all the rest that fell on the floor probably are valuable in some way, shape, or

Yeah. Yep. It's, it's kind of figuring out, um, through all that, like, okay, which ones are the priorities? You know, which ones are secondary? Which ones rely on this and that?

Understanding Each Other's Needs

Um, I also believe that in working with others, and I'm actually talking about this, um, in another venue tomorrow, we, we talk about expectation management all the time.

That's hugely important, but I, I'll take it a step further and I'll use a different word to me. It's more about of understanding of each other's needs,

right? So you, you and I could have, let's say you and I work together and you're the COO and I'm the, I'm the CMO, you know, um, we are producing, uh, ballpoint pens, you know, and, and, you know, we might have a list of goals that, You and I both work towards the same company to make the greatest ballpoint pens, whatever, that write in space and do whatever.

Um, but you have specific needs. from me, just like I have specific needs that I need from you in order to meet that goal. And if we don't understand each other's needs at the very foundational level, we won't, we won't be able to, I think, reach our highest levels. Uh, I had folks that, uh, worked in my front office that had Child care issues, like they couldn't make it to like the eight o'clock huddle and they said, you know, sir, I, I can't make it to that because I, by the time I drive to, to the drop off and drop my daughter off, I get stuck in and I, I'm always getting here about 15 minutes late.

Is there any chance we can move it to 815? And I'm like, yeah, let's move the huddle to 815. You know, that only affected one of 40 people in the front office, but. It was a big enough deal to her to say, Oh my gosh, you know, my boss is at least flexible enough to allow me to be part of this team, to move a meeting 15 minutes.

That's to me is too easy.

Yeah. And it's so ties into the whole philosophy command with purge, which I know that is the mantra, right? Particularly when you get to higher levels of leadership where right, wrong, or indifferent, right? Yeah. Showing weakness or showing that you need others or things can be a double edged sword. How do you inspire others to have the courage of conviction to stay true to forming those relationships, to asking those questions which are going to propel the company to what it's supposed to do?

Modeling Vulnerability as a Leader

I think for leaders, it's important like you have to be the one modeling this stuff. Otherwise, people aren't going to really feel like it's allowed. It's almost like I did find myself more often than not as a colonel at a base commander level. Uh, than I did as a younger leader, had to say more often, like, Hey, you are allowed to, to give me your feedback, like in a conference room.

You're like, Hey, you, you are allowed to tell me what's on your mind or they know they have that ability, but. Sometimes hearing it is almost like the permission that sometimes people are looking for.

Right.

And, but until they see and recognize what vulnerability kind of looks like, you're not really sure.

It's not about sharing like your deepest darkest secrets, like what happened at home last night as you come into work. Right. Um, but I, I will say one of the most interesting things I saw, uh, in the first month, um, you know, I'm a pretty happy person,

you

know,

very

optimistic by, you know,

You have a better smile than I do, right? You have the best Scott smile on this podcast,

a lot of money in there.

A lot of money invested in there, right?

The Power of Transparency

So, um, but I noticed that, you know, uh, there was a day I came in and, um, we had a late night, uh, because of some power outages on the bass and it, I was up really late, uh, you know, just kind of monitoring the situation and, and, uh, it, it all was fine. I came in pretty tired, But I walked into my office.

I set my bag down. I just dove into some email right away before the eight o'clock meeting. And I walked back out and I grabbed my coffee. And all of a sudden, I don't know what hit me, but I noticed how silent it was. Like in the front office is a flurry of activity. There's like 10 people in there.

There's people laughing. And I mean, it's,

yeah, It's

Too quiet.

something's up, right?

And I turn around and everybody's kind of looking at me and I'm like, what, what did I miss?

You know, and one of the executive officers, he, he asked me, he's like, Hey sir, are you, are you doing okay? I said, Oh yeah, I'm tired. And they're like, Oh, okay.

You're like, you, you just kind of came in and normally you like say something or, and tell us a joke or, and you didn't do that. And I learned a valuable lesson there that it's okay. Maybe for me to talk out loud, like when I do that self talk, I should sometimes tell my team what's on my mind so that they're not.

Making up stuff in their head because this is what will happen

is, you know, if I had not said something or turned around, they would all be on the

conspiracy.

would be water cooler talk.

Yeah, like,

be saying, okay, what's about to happen?

yo, I wonder if he got in a fight with his wife last night. Oh, I wonder if he kicked the cat. Oh, I wonder if he, but there are times when I think leaders need to talk more out loud and to me, that's being vulnerable.

It might be something as simple in a staff meeting as saying, you know, I see both sides of what's presented today, but I'm actually having, it's still a hard time understanding this. I just don't know right now if I can make a decision.

Um, and

that

work.

how, how, how, often do we hear a leader saying, I don't

That, that is

a powerful phrase.

That's powerful.

It's hugely powerful. And, and I've had leaders that have said that, and I think that's where I've learned it from is some of the toughest leaders I've worked for all the way up to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Um, they have said, I don't know.

What

is your opinion?

And I'm like, wow, I just heard that come out of that leader's mouth, you know? I think you need to learn those, those, Again, the small things matter. Those are the things that actually, uh, create cultures of high trust. That when your employees start seeing the boss as a human being and not just as a base commander or the CEO or the president or whatever, they see you as human, like, things can happen to you too.

That's why the, I think the brain tumor in a, uh, in a funny sort of way, uh, really opened up, um, people's ability to talk about some of the scars and resilience they're dealing with. What I noticed is the more I talked about, uh, what I'd been through, because I didn't tell the base that I had a brain tumor when I arrived, you know?

It didn't matter, it just, it didn't affect them, I didn't want them to be distracted,

You just didn't want the distraction, you wanted them to keep focused on the mission at hand, basically. That you didn't want pity for lack of a better term.

all of that, I thought about all of that, and um, I wanted us to, to, you know, be the best at what we do, and be as ready as we can be if we're called upon, and uh, make sure our families are taken care of, and and ensure that hey, um, innovation is, is big. And if, if things aren't working a certain way, let's find a different, better way to do it.

Um, you know, those are the things that were important, but until it came to the surgery point, that's when I started telling more of the squadron commanders below me. I brought them in. I just said, Hey, yeah, I'll take your prayers. Please

Yes.

At the end of the day, Take care of your unit, your people.

That's where I want your focus. Okay,

so

I would love to use that. To as we start to move to the close of this episode, I always do a little tip of the cap to Randy Posh and his book, The Last Lecture. And the culmination of that book where he says his final head fake was, this was written for my kids, right? So I know that you not only have future leaders.

that you want to inspire and uplift, but you also have your son who you're talking about, you know, the pursuit of dreams. They're listening to this podcast.

What are the key lessons in courage and leadership that you want them to take away and employ in their lives?

Lessons in Accountability and Innovation

think the one word, that really comes to mind first is accountability. We all need to hold ourselves first and foremost accountable for how we pursue our leadership development, how we pursue any development, how do we behave and how we go about the things that we love doing or our work or whatever it may be.

Um, the, the second thing is kind of a mantra that I do. Matter of fact, have it on my, one of my squadron command mugs right

here. Be present, be bold, be innovative, you

know. And, it's something that I still say to myself every day. I say to, I I say it to myself probably a hundred times a day. Um, know, being present is more than just showing up.

It's actually being engaged, being involved,

not waiting for your boss to improve engagement in the workplace, but you actually being engaged.

simple as you're at home and you put your phone down, get off the doom scroll because your son has a question and you want to just say, I'm here. Hit me with it.

if something's not working, you You

can choose to do it differently. That's the second part, being bold. Are you bold enough to choose to do it differently? You know, are you bold enough to, you know, go after the additional 1 percent necessary to be great? You know, um, or are, are you just going to maintain status quo, mediocrity?

That's fine. Um, you know, I, I, I'm okay with that, but well, like I said, to me, it separates those that are, and it gives me an area of, okay, well, I actually know who's kind of going that direction. Who's taking the, the extra 1%, who's giving it a little bit more. I kind of know who to kind of lean into a little bit more. What I love to uplift. Uh, everybody?

Absolutely. But, again, it goes back to the accountability. Are you willing to be trained, to be coached, to be, uh, you know, taught something new? Uh,

regardless of your personality. You can't, you can't blame it all on that. Well, that's just the way I grew up. Or, that's just the way mom and

dad

taught me. Yeah.

out.

That

Yeah,

means you're not willing to change.

so. Um,

and to me, the last one about being innovative, it's all about curiosity. I have such a high level of curiosity. Like I'm, I can go down some amazing rabbit holes, you know, just because I'm like, I'm just curious, you know, I'm like, I'll go down this way, you know, I, whether it's spiritual, physical, uh, mental, you, whatever the topic is scientific, I love learning things, being outside, just enjoying the smells and sounds.

And, and, uh, I think if you, if you start to lose that, you start to lose the ability to see things differently or even take in things that may be, uh, different than what you believe. So some of that unconscious bias that we talk a lot about, which is hard to kind of unveil because You don't know unless you lean into your curiosity and it feels a little bit sticky, you know?

yeah, exactly. And that takes a

You're in a good spot.

different type of awareness. You're

right.

That's what I would tell kind of my, that's what I tell my son. That's what I would tell young leaders out there is be accountable for yourself and then learn to be present, be bold and be innovative.

The Story Behind 'Command with Courage' Book

And you know, let me go do a plug of your upcoming book, Command with Courage, Elevating Beyond Adversity, a story about adjusting aim to better prepare yourself. for Overcoming Adversity and Building Resilience. Those folks who are listening to this podcast and putting this on their watch list for books to be on the watch out for, right?

What are we going to find in this book, man?

Oh, I tell you what, I'm excited. I I've got about an hour left, uh, and I'll be done with the first draft of the manuscript and then we're going to go to the hard editing. So yeah, we're. We're getting there. It's going to be out this year, and I'm hoping this summer.

at first I started kind of writing it in an autobiographical way, and after about a year of writing it that way and 30, 000 words in, I was like, Nope.

And then I turned it into more of a story. I went back to my Star Wars roots and I'm like, Let's make this a story. Stories are fun.

And

they're memorable. Absolutely.

and so it's a story of a single mom. She's a master sergeant in the Air Force at Scott Air Force Base. And, uh, she's struggling. She's struggling through an ugly divorce, still trying to get over it after a couple of years.

She's got a young daughter and, uh, she's having some leadership challenges being in this new role as a first sergeant, uh,

in, in a military unit, which is the first sergeant is Really that person that kind of cares and feeds for everybody in the unit. They, they know when somebody's struggling or the family's struggling, the first sergeant is the one that you always call first.

And,

often the last ones take care of themselves, I can

oh my gosh, they are the last ones to take care of themselves. Um, but, uh, She has an officer, uh, that kind of pulls her aside and says, Hey, I, would you be open to some mentorship? And so she ends up on this mentorship, mentorship journey with a guy named Colonel Heathman and, uh,

hmm.

to meet with this guy once a week.

And he kind of takes her through some interesting things. The framework, uh, of AIM, uh, which is another acronym again, uh, I kind of developed this from reading Marcus Aurelius book Meditations.

Uh, I read this when I was healing,

stoics 2, 000 years after the fact

are still as powerful today.

yeah, I mean, I was like, okay, this guy was a leader, he was a military commander, you know, or leader, we'll call it, uh, obviously Emperor Rome, uh, let's see, he's dealt with pandemics, he's dealt with deaths, in his own family, loss of children. Um, he's dealt with, uh, all kinds of trials and tribulations.

Like, yeah, it reads like it was written yesterday and I was reading it with one eye with the book over my head because I could see the word straight if I held it over my head. So I reread that book when I was, uh, healing and I kind of formulated, um, some thoughts on this adjusting aim because he always.

referred to AIM as kind of your mindset. And to me it was the A stands for acknowledge and acceptance. So understanding the adversity that you're actually dealing with. Some people don't even acknowledge or accept it.

Agreed. You know, but, you know, it's the ostrich philosophy. If I put my head in the sand, it doesn't exist, right? Well, no, it does exist.

Yep. And there's probably no mystery why the, you know, in AA, the 12 step process, first step is My name is Scott and I have a problem, right? I mean, you gotta, you have to get to that point. The I is about illuminating the path forward. So it's a

visualization that I take her through on how to think about some steps.

to get to this vision of what would fulfillment look like? Not perfection, but fulfillment.

What would bring you joy? What would bring you freedom? Um, and then finally, the M is all about mobilization and moving out. So it's a little bit of a military term, but before you take that scary, that first scary step.

We mobilize first. We don't deploy anywhere in the world until we go through a mobilization line where they check our shot records, they check to make sure our will's intact, they check to make sure we got all of our equipment, they check to make sure, um, we've got people that can care for our family and kids and, you know, Whatever we need before we go on deployment, they want all of that ready to go so that I am on the, in the best mindset to go do the nation's business.

And, uh, then we move out. So I walked her through that in, in, uh, uh, over a couple of weeks. And, uh, well, I'm not going to spoil the rest of the story, but.

Yeah, I'm about to say, I mean,

that's

a pretty good tease right there. But what we'll do is that we will, uh, have this information up in the show notes, along with any other ways that folks can get in contact with you, obviously, with the Command with Courage platform. And should your book be available or in pre sale.

We'll put that link up as well

that'd be great.

show notes for folks as well. final words before we close out this wonderful episode?

this may sound a little bit cliche, but um, I want every leader out there, regardless of how many years you've been in your leadership role, whether it's one or 40, or how high in the organization you are, it is a never ending journey. And that's, I'm not saying that to frustrate you. I'm saying that to hopefully encourage you to keep learning and, and stay curious, because if you're not.

You're going to get consumed by the organization or your own thoughts on how the organization should run and it may not go the direction that you actually are hoping it's going to go. Um, and you know, if, if you need help, there are folks like me and others out there who love to spend time with leaders and shine a spotlight.

On something that you may not be seeing, you know? So, uh, yeah, I, I hope anybody that would love to have, uh, me part of their corporate ventures or their one on ones, uh, reaches out to commandwithcourage. reaches out to me and let me know what's, you know, a phone call is free. I, you know, let me know what I can do

I agree. I agree. Well, Scott, you've been a tremendous help in This podcast for all of my listeners in terms of the wealth of applicable wisdom from all your various experiences that you've been such a pleasure to have on the podcast. So thank you so much for being my guest. I really appreciate it. And to my list, no words, uh,

and to my listening audience, thank you for listening to this episode.

As I said, you can find Scott's information in the show notes. Keep an eye out for his book and com and please feel free to subscribe and share this episode with folks in your circle who could benefit from this until next time. This is the other Scott saying we'll see you next time on the Corpus effect.

care.

Outro

Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. To access today's show notes, resources, and links mentioned in this episode, visit www.thecorvuseffect.com While you're there, you'll find links to our free tools and resources to evaluate where you currently stand versus your aspirations with personalized recommendations for action. If you found value in today's episode, Please take a moment to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share with those who may benefit from it. You won't want to miss future conversations that could transform your approach to leadership and life. Join me next episode as we continue our journey towards building lasting legacies that matter. Remember, it's time to soar towards your legacy.