Intro

📍 Welcome to The Corvus Effect, where we take you behind the scenes to explore integrated self leadership and help ambitious family men build lasting legacies for themselves, their tribe, and their community. I'm Scott Raven, and together we'll discover how successful leaders master a delicate balance of career advancement, personal health, financial growth, and meaningful relationships. Get ready to soar.

Meet Scott Gingold: A Seasoned Advisor

📍 And hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Corvus Effect. I am Scott and I've got another Scott.

With me, I've got Scott Gingold, a seasoned advisor who has built an exited seven successful businesses across multiple industries. With four decades of experience, Scott now guides family owned businesses through their greatest challenges, from communication, breakdowns to succession planning and generational transitions, his own journey of relocating to be closer to family and prioritizing his role as a grandfather while maintaining professional success.

Perfectly embodies the integrated life approach that we seek in the corvus life. And just to, well, I have a, uh, nice little aside before we got on the horn here, we were chatting about. Easter eggs and aquariums and certainly things that I have fond memories of having my son, daughter, do that with, my dad.

So Scott, welcome to the podcast and good on you for having a wonderful Easter weekend that just transpired.

Well, thank you so much Scott, and as I always say, two Scotts are always better than one, so, hey, it is a winner.

The Importance of Family in Business

Um, you know, the one thing I'd comment about the Easter weekend too, and I think some of your audience may actually resonate with this, is I. as you mentioned, Scott, you're a dad too, and you know, when you're a father, you feel that responsibility.

But I think at least as a grandparent, it's doubled that because not only are you trying to be a good and positive role model and fun with your grandchild, but you're still never done teaching your own child or children. You know, some of those parenting techniques by your successes, but also more frankly, some of the missteps too.

So it was a really interesting weekend from that perspective.

Amen to that. Right. uh, I've got a, uh, almost 14 and 10, right. And I'm kind of learning from my dad what he would've done differently during my teenage years and I see college coming up on the horizon, right? So, you know, definitely trying to learn from my elders and the wisdom that is being passed down to me.

And that's really a great place to start our conversation because. Like I said, in the open, you have incredible wisdom with many, many different business successes across multiple industries and a four decade career.

Scott Gingold's Early Career and Family Business

So I guess just help us start with your early experience and career path, which led you to what you do now.

Which is help family oriented businesses help us understand the foundation that helped that, uh, come to place.

Well, it all really started with the fact I was born into this life of family business with my mother and father who continued to work together even for a minute after their divorce. And I've talked about recently as I remember as early as three and four years old, the vividly conversations about.

The squabbles at dinnertime. You know, not only the marriage to squabbles to be frank, but also the, you know, pass the peas, pass the potatoes, and how the heck are we gonna fix the warehouse problem? Or how are we gonna fix the marketing problem or hire staff? So it always resonated with me. And even though before starting my own businesses, I had a lot of experience both in corporate America and working for other family business.

When I made this move into business, uh, venture number eight, this was truly, and it sounds kind of passe and flip to say, but it was a calling. Um, you know, I see it my work all the time because of the fact that a lot of family businesses frankly stumble and the end results not great. So anything I can do to kind of intervene on that and be helpful in the sense of keeping the family united while still accomplishing the business goals is a win-win for me.

The Move to Florida: Balancing Family and Career

and I think that one of the biggest a, does he teach what he preaches, right? Your decision. To move down to Florida to be closer to family while still pursuing professional success with venture Number eight. That action just speaks volumes in and of itself.

Well, thank you. You know, it was, on one hand it wasn't an easy decision, but on the other hand it was an incredibly easy one because family is everything to me. Um, you know, the toughest part probably was here. I was in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania for 30 years. I knew every, this sounds conceited, but I knew everybody, everybody knew me, couldn't walk into somewhere without someone recognizing me in a good way.

And you know, it was, I had friends everywhere and then I became like, Vinny in my blue heaven, you know, he wakes up and goes, I'm a somebody. I'm a nobody in somebody land. You know? And that was a really hard pill to swallow, frankly. But. Witnessing, uh, my granddaughter being born and, you know, watching the joy of my son and daughter-in-law's, faces as well as my wife, it all made it worthwhile.

You know, it was, it was the right time, right thing to do at the right time.

Right.

Helping the Next Generation Succeed

And your son also has a big, part of this dual impact story as well because you helped his business grow three x. In 24 months now, professional accomplishments aside on that, how did that feel personally to you to say you were able to lend your expertise and your wisdom directly to your son to help his venture take off?

It was incredibly rewarding. You know, my son and daughter-in-law had already built something pretty darn incredible to begin with, but the growth that you spoke of, you know, I was fortunate that I was part of that growth period. That growth spurred, if you will, as they were changing direction and moving in a new way.

So to be a part of something so special that my. Son and daughter-in-law created was really incredible and it reminded me, you know, I talked about at the onset of our podcast here about your role as a dad or grandma, however you know, teaching. But as an entrepreneur, anytime I think you can continue to teach and help in your own child's.

Business goals and accomplishments, man. Oh man, that's something really special, you know, and I'm out of it now and they continue to grow and go and it's really

heartwarming, you know, two really smart people and you know, anything I could do to be part of that was extraordinarily rewarding.

Yeah. being able now to sit back on the sidelines, right? And say they can continue this without me. That you have allowed them to fly out of your nest for a little bit, right? And that they continue to soar. Soar towards their legacy is phenomenal.

The Concept of Integration vs. Balance

And you know, between all of this, you talk about something that we talk a lot on this podcast, which is the various roles that we play in life, that we are one human being that has multiple roles that we play, and the concept of integration.

Across roles versus balance. I speak about this a lot, but I was very heartened to hear you also firmly believe in this concept.

Absolutely. You know, you have to be pliable in everything that you do in life and you have to be able to be there as needed at different points. You know, in our lifetime we take on different roles because that's what it's needed and I think I. I see people who are very rigid and they never wanna change.

They never wanna bend, they never wanna flex. And as a result, frankly, they become dinosaurs really quickly and they put themselves in a position of not being valuable to anybody, including themselves ultimately. And I think evolving is just so critical.

Evolving Away from the 'Have It All' Mentality

Now speaking of evolving, one philosophy that I know you evolved away from through your experience and wisdom is the have it all mentality. And I'm curious, what were some of the seminal things that you learned along the way to say, you know what? Have it all is just not right. I'm sorry, I can't get behind that, concept.

if you're going to have it all, you're gonna sacrifice 90% of the other things in your life really is what it comes down to. You know, I grew up in an era back in the, you know, this started in the women's movement in the seventies, went into even the eighties. You can have it all.

I've never believed that, whether you're a woman or a man, by the way, none of us can have it all. You can have bits and pieces, but you can't have it all, and you have to make some real big decisions. Um, I have met with, you know, millionaires and a few billionaires along the way who tell you they have it all financially, of all the toys, all the trinkets.

They have no relationship with their children or anyone, you know, much less a serious relationship, you know, and. I think the biggest thing I learned outta the whole thing is, you know, you just do your best. You try and build certain things in your business that will afford you not comfort, but also sustainability.

You know, that you can have a life financially and not worry about, geez, the nail's coming in, what bill's coming. Versus, I have no relationship with the people that I care about the most. one of the examples I give, my career started as a first responder in EMS. And the funny thing about that is when you're in the ed, the emergency department emergency room, as some people call it.

could have two people injured a millionaire and you could have somebody in skid row or poverty lane, and it's all triage. Who's hurt the worst? Now, eventually the person who's the wealthy person will get better care 'cause you know, whether in that facility or transfer out. But at that moment in time, it's triaged.

And who needs help. really medical care first, and that always resonates. It still does to this day. It comes down to priorities, and you have to have your priorities in line because otherwise you will wake up a very sad person. One day I.

The Importance of Prioritization and Boundaries

Hmm. one thing that you coach the people that you work with is prioritization, has an element of boundary setting. Because if you do not have boundaries setting in your life, you're gonna take on unwanted. Opportunity costs, such as what you described with those millionaires and billionaires who have had an implicit opportunity, cost of no relations with folks close in their life.

Well, exactly, and if you don't choose those, if you don't set those boundaries and if you don't establish them, someone else is gonna do it for you. Might be a divorce attorney. Might be a, a custodian care for your children might be a lot of things, so somebody will set those boundaries for you. If you don't, so which would you rather have decide your own future and what's going to happen or would you rather somebody else decide for you personally, I've always chosen to decide my own future, whether it's in my marriage or relationships with family members and friends.

Scott's Leadership Philosophy: 'Scott's a Jerk'

You know what? And I love how you take it to the point that you are unapologetically you in all of the ways. One thing, as we were having our offline discussion before this episode was you introduced me to the concept of. Scott's a jerk, and I'd love for you to expand on that a little bit for my listening audience in terms of, now this actually has a point in terms of how you are you, but you allow others to inform you and be themselves in the same variety.

Oh, absolutely. In every company I've ever owned and operated, one of the things that was actually the employee handbook, you could say Scott's a jerk. You just had to do it respectfully and discreetly. So anybody at any time could come into my office, assuming I'm not in a meeting, of course, or something like that, close the door and say, Scott, you're being a jerk.

And here's why. And I never, you know, I might have questions about it, but I never fought anybody about it. I never retracted it, you know, like, well, no, no, I think you're wrong. I'd ask questions and then, you know, I would make adjustments as needed because, you know, again, we can all get caught up in that same song in our head.

And not realize the rest of the band is playing. You know, you don't hear everyone else. And I wanted to make sure I heard the whole band, the whole orchestra, if you will, because I always hired smart people and smarter than myself because they had talents in areas that I didn't. And I think that's what a good leader does too, is you hire people that are smarter than you because you want to be better and you want your company to be better, so you darn well better listen to 'em.

Outta curiosity, is there one jerk conversation that you remember better than most? One that really stuck with you in terms of this was so impactful for all of us in terms of moving us forward That I'm glad it happened. I.

Yeah, I think one that comes to mind right away is we always brought in plenty of interns. I'm a big believer in internships and externships. We worked with a local community college as well as other traditional colleges as well, but especially one particular community college. I remember one of my supervisors came in operations manager and said to me, you know, you're expecting these because these people are going to school for technology to know certain things that they just don't know.

They have book knowledge, but not you know, real experience. And you're being a jerk about this because you're, I was never, I've never been a yeller or a screamer, but, you know, it was one of those things where, it's obvious that you're putting pressure on them and it's not fair to them, and it's not fair to the company.

So stop being a jerk. So, yeah, I learned my lesson quickly.

Hmm And I would assume that the end result of that was a much more productive working environment for everybody, and that those interns and next turns took away the growth experience that they needed for whatever the next chapter was in their journey.

Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing that it did was every time we went on campus to interview potential, interns, I used to go to quarterly intern meetings with the college and there'd be professors there and other staff. I always made sure that I brought at least two of the, frontline, supervisors from our team, to kind of make sure that I was keeping on track with expectations.

Goals and what we were gonna be all about when they came to join us. So that was a change that I made immediately. So I made sure that we were, you know, the biggest goal of having an intern and extern was not, you know, just an extra set of hands. It was so we could teach people things that would help them in their career, whether they joined us at the end of the rainbow, or whether they moved on along the way.

Right,

Communication Pitfalls in Family Businesses

And you know, it's a, nice transition as we talk about what you now focus on now, which is family oriented business. And one of the things that you really focus on in terms of having these, connection points and being able to work effectively is. Communication and the common communication pitfalls that can be fell a family run business.

I'd love you to go deeper into that from your own vast experience in terms of what you bring to the table.

Sure, of course. Well, you know, some of the common things is, you know, the old joke about assumptions, and I won't use the language here, but.

We we're, we're fine with the language here,

Okay, so the assumptions, it makes an asset of you and me, right? When we make assumptions, and that's the problem in a lot of family businesses, a lot of things are just assumed because we share the same bloodline. We should be thinking the same way and know the same things, and it just isn't the case. And also it's kind of funny, when we work for other people, we're not as Timid , or as. You know, hesitant to say certain things, but when it's family, we're so afraid of, you know, saying things because it's going to spill over. And one of the things I do is have an honest conversation with people individually, and then I bring everyone together without naming names and, you know, start putting up on a, a whiteboard, blackboard, whatever.

some of the things that I've been hearing, and you can see people really. It takes a minute for it to, you know, to kind of sink in and really go deep with them. But then once they do, they realize like, oh my God, that's me. You know, I, I learned a technique when I coached youth sports and although this is a tangent on that, I kind of do the same thing that I did in youth sports.

I.

Managing Personal and Professional Contexts

I can imagine part of the dance that you do with these people is that there's a personal context and a professional context which are going on simultaneously, and that while it's. One human being or a set of human beings that what role they are engaged in has an effect on how they communicate with the same people and having to manage through those communication styles.

Absolutely. And you know, a couple things come to light here. First of all, many of the clients I work with, family members are put into the wrong roles. You know, you know Homer, I use the Simpsons as my examples all the time. Homer can add two plus two, so we'll put him in a county. Well, maybe that's not really.

Nah, probably not.

Yeah, so we met or need to think that through and also understanding what is Homer's real passion? What is he really interested in? Because if we put people into roles, they're really not interested in, are they gonna really be successful? Not likely. And that's gonna hurt the company too. And having frank conversations about these things.

I mean, just let's get to the heart of it. Let's not beat around the bush here. Let's get real. And the sooner we do that, the sooner we can move the business forward and the sooner we're united as a family too.

You know, when we talk about being frank and real in a family oriented business, one of the other challenges is there's history. Within the family and not all that history can be good sometimes. Right. And how that can be the internal volcano, which will explode if you don't address it head on. And I'd love for you to go deeper with your own experience in terms of how that has been a challenge that you've had to help people work through.

Well, if you take a family that's not in business together, there's always things that they don't say to one another, right? 'cause they wanna keep the family together. Now, throw the complexity in of a family business, and it just gets compounded. So what I see all the time is family's afraid to talk to each other because they don't want.

There's the hurt. I don't wanna hurt grandpa or grandma. And it also extends to family that's not in the business. 'cause when, so if we have a family business, let's say for the sake of argument, we have a grandmother that started it, a, her son took it over and now his, his daughter's going to take it over from him.

You know, there's already this generational thing going on too. And there's already this misalignment in communication. Now it's compounded by the fact that nobody's talking to one another and all the spouses are significant. Others of all these people get involved even though they're not in the business.

That's one of the things I see all the time in my work is, you know, I'm going through it now with a few different clients where people that are not involved in the business, but because they share the same last name are bragged into these things and it makes any family gathering much less a holiday, one miserable.

Yeah, that, that is absolutely great, Scott. And you know, I can imagine that in the work that you do, one of the biggest things that you have to aid family businesses is when they get to a point of succession planning where. The owner is looking to go down to the next generation, but the next generation may have different

desires for the business, different strengths in terms of what they want to do within the business, how they want the business to run, and that could be a very tricky conversation to have with, particularly with an owner who spent so much time in terms of growing that business to where it's at.

Absolutely Scott, and the truth of the matter is this conversation should have happened long before it actually did in most cases, and because it didn't, now all of a sudden there's conflict involved to your point. Generation that's taking over has a different view of the direction the business should go, whether it's in product line services or any myriad of other things for that matter.

And then it becomes a tug of war and no, do it this way because we've done it this way for a hundred years, so we should continue to do it that way for another a hundred years. And it creates a real conflict on top of which, you know, the founder might have been one of these people who worked a hundred hours a week and the new generation saying, you know.

I can run this business effectively, efficiently and profitably by doing it 40 hours a week as an example. So that's where there tends to be some headbutting and some serious disagreement on how things will move forward. I

The Role of Outside Wisdom in Family Businesses

how often does outside wisdom aid in these type of discussions, not just bringing in somebody like yourself with experience, having helped numerous family businesses, but outside wisdom and expertise of people who would work? Directly in the business or potentially changing the business model to be family owned, maybe not necessarily family operated.

Well, it all starts, you know, it Well, it all starts, with the idea of are you willing to change? Are you open to new ideas? Are you willing to look at things from a different perspective than you ever did before? Because if you're not, honestly, I mean, you can't honestly say those things, I. No matter what we do, it's not gonna work.

Outside counsel, listen, whether it's me or anyone else, if it's the right outside counsel, I mean people with real world experience, not just, you know, letters after their name and book knowledge, that's game changer here. But bringing in somebody from the outside, say in a general manager role or whatever title they may be given, definitely can work.

Not in every case though, but it can work. And again, it's sitting down with all the. The parties involved to make sure that they are really emotionally, more than anything, emotionally ready and equipped to bring in somebody in that role and listen to them too.

That must be difficult, particularly for. Family members who have always thought that they get to choose their seat on the bus and somebody coming in and saying, no, these are the people who are the right people on the right seats in the right bus, and that may not match with what certain family members think.

Well, exactly. and that's why testing is really important too. There's enough testing that you can do, you know, without naming names 'cause they're not sponsors or your podcast, so I won't do that. But there certainly are enough testing out there besides somebody like me with a lot of experience. I.

To be able to kind of sit with each family member, determine, where they're at, intellectually, emotionally talented, and so on and so forth. But, making sure whether some sort of assessment test is done. Let's make sure, to your point, we have the right seats, right? People in the right seats, or maybe they don't have a seat.

Maybe they don't belong in that role at all.

And oftentimes I would imagine that that gets down to. What is the true definition of success that those family members want beyond the financial metrics, where it's not just about what the p and l is, it's everything else that goes along for the ride in terms of what successfully being in a family run business looks like.

Well, you know, one of the things I do Scott or don't do is I will never define anyone's success. Tell me what you envision as success and I'll help you accomplish that goal. But I'm not going to tell you what success is and it means something different for everybody. And you know, success also has to be about the family because you can have an extraordinarily successful business.

A terrible family life and we don't want to turn the family into the Hatfield in McCoys where every family gathering is just gonna end up with somebody calling 9 1 1 to have the police break it up. And I've seen that happen too.

no, no, no. The only thing that we should, have violence over, at least in my family, is Monopoly. We can't play Monopoly as a family. Somebody will flip the board over,

Well, in my family it's Scrabble, but I usually lose, so it's easy solution there. My wife always beat.

There you go. There you go. But, to your point in terms of what that definition of success may look like across family members, I would assume that also may provide thoughts on what are alternative business models, which may produce the success that folks want in a more efficient and effective manner.

Well, exactly. Let's take it as an example of brick and mortar. the new generation may look at this and go, you know, we have a brick and mortar. Even if we own the building, we're still paying a lot of money for the building and maintenance and upkeep, and so on and so forth. You know, is that really our solution or should we be more of a virtual business?

They look at things a lot differently, and the generation that's handing a business down or turning it over, if you will, has to at least be open to the conversation, not necessarily agree. Be open to the conversation. You know, it's a funny thing I've seen, founders come in and if the banker comes in or their accountant or their lawyer and says, you need to do this and this, and this is why, they're usually pretty amenable.

But when a family member, especially younger family member comes up with that, there's automatically a built in resistance because age, you know, it's, they don't have the experience that I do, so how could they know what I know?

Mm. You know, there's the old adage that, an older generation, younger generation are, uh, standing next to each other, right? The older generation explained to younger generation. You need to listen to me because I. I have so much learned, wisdom that I've learned along the way. The younger generation looks at the older generation and says, no, you need to listen to me because I have so much opportunity to pursue, and I want you to hear where I want that opportunity to lie.

Both sides are right. It's a matter of listening to each other that really brings all those results to fruition.

You know you're absolutely right. Scott and I vividly remember the Motor Carrier Act of 1980 when the motor carrier trucking industry got deregulated and you had the old time sales guys who would be like, we hand up bottles and ball tickets and that's how we get businesses. And they were. Partially right in the sense of relationship, but the newer generation of that came in after that motor carrier act had to be learn how to be creative, how to sell value added services, how to add things to the mix that weren't there before.

And again, it's that willingness to change. And some of those old timers, of course, were sent to pasture because they wouldn't adapt and it's lead follow or get outta the way basically.

And is that where you know the ability for these family oriented businesses to build the right teams, build the right sets of people, be willing to roll, swap where appropriate, that that's really what's gonna win the day for them.

Absolutely. You know, and really having the honest conversation with, you know, you're in the accounting role, but is that really your talent? Is that where your passion is? You know, some people love numbers and that's awesome. We need people like that. But if it's not really your forte and it's not really your passion.

We better be looking at that pretty carefully, and what do we need to do to get you in a better role that better suits your talents, your desires and goals, as well as what's best for the company.

Absolutely. When you. word impact as it relates to jingle advisors and how you want impact to be measured at the end of the day for you, what would you say?

I wanna walk away from the assignment knowing that I've left people in a better place than I found them, that they are on a better track for success. And again, I don't define success, but that the families communicating, I. The family is happy that they're moving forward. Of course, I work on the revenue issues too.

I mean, that's part of it. Build companies, I know it that's, you know, you have to build quality revenue and such, but I wanna know that my impact is I've left them in a better place for today and tomorrow, and they have the tools necessary to deal with issues and a level of emotional intelligence to come up with better outcomes.

At the end of the day,

So powerful.

Final Thoughts and Takeaways

As we move to the close of this episode, I always do a tip of the cap to Randy P's, the last lecture, incredible amount of wisdom, and his final statement in the book was. This book was for my kids. So we talked about your son, we talked about your granddaughter on this episode. They're listening to this episode right now.

What do you want them to take?

I want them to take away knowing that I always did what I thought was in the best interest of the family, family first, business Second, you try and marry those two things up as best as you humanly can. You want to be true to your family first. You want to be present for them. I coached all my son's youth sports.

I can literally count three events that I ever missed between school and everything else. I always did what I had to do to get back in time for things was involved in his life. So I want them to know that we can't have it all. You can find ways to integrate things that makes it work. You might sacrifice some financial goals, if you will, or whatever.

You know, maybe you won't have this car, you'll have that car, this house and not that house. the magazine cover house or car. But you can achieve great things and have a good life, and still have a solid family and to make sure that they teach this continuing on even after I'm not here anymore.

You know, like, we had mentioned previously in terms of billionaires and billionaires who have all the financial trappings of there to come, but have the opportunity cost of having. No connection with those people closest to them being able to find your definition of success that has all of those elements so valuable that I know that part of giving back, that you talk about is that you have a select number of free coaching sessions for people who are listeners to this podcast.

Is that right?

Absolutely. And I know you're gonna share details with your audience, but yeah, I, I want to give back, you know, it's one thing to talk the talk, but walk the walk too. I also feel it's my responsibility after building what I've built and had, you know, been blessed to have the opportunities and successes that I have.

To be able to share that with other people. I can't do it unlimited and forever, of course, but you know, I know that you're gonna share that with your audience and you know, it's my pleasure to do it because I know the impact that it has on people and I wanna make sure that I'm giving back you know, walking that walk as well.

we appreciate it as well. And how else can people get in contact with you, sir?

Yeah, I live on LinkedIn, so you can find me there, Scott Gingold, all one word. Um, my website is jing gold advisors.com. You can find me there too. Just simply search my name and. I'm not, there's another scotch. It was funny. I had lunch with somebody with exact name, middle initial and everything not long ago.

He is based in New Jersey, but I'm easy to find. But look for me on LinkedIn, I post every day, Monday through Friday, every morning. And of course the website too.

Oh, fantastic. We will certainly put all of that information up on the episode guide. And Scott, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast with so much incredible wisdom. Any final words before we close out this episode?

Well, couple things. First of all, I'm grateful to you, Scott, for having me. I look at your posts every day. I learn something new every day. which I don't always find that with everybody. So when you asked me to be on, you know, it's one of the things that I was really. Proud to say yes to because again, you're such a great teacher and I learn something new all the time, so I'm grateful for that and I really endorse and embrace what you're about and what you're doing.

So thank you for that. And the other thing I would say to people is just make sure that every morning when you look in the mirror. You're happy with what you see. I don't mean physically like, Hey, listen, I'd like to be about 30 pounds lighter, and I'd like more hair on my head, but on the, or any hair on my head in my case.

But on the other hand, just make sure you're the person you want people to see that you see in the mirror every day, and then you'll be doing a good thing.

Absolutely. Well, Scott, this has been a incredible episode, full of wisdom. Thank you so much for bringing your decades and decades of experience to all of us. I can certainly say for myself that I'm a lot wiser as a result, so thank you so much.

Appreciate you, Scott. Thanks so much.

Yeah. to our, uh, listening audience, always thank you for spending the time to listen to these sessions.

Please subscribe, share with those in your circle who you feel would gain something. We always love seeing the reviews in terms of how you guys are feeling in terms of the impact that these episodes are creating. So please give us your feedback and we will set you next time on the Corvus Effect. Take care.

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Outro

Thank you for joining me on The Corvus Effect. To access today's show notes, resources, and links mentioned in this episode, visit www.thecorvuseffect.com While you're there, you'll find links to our free tools and resources to evaluate where you currently stand versus your aspirations with personalized recommendations for action. If you found value in today's episode, Please take a moment to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share with those who may benefit from it. You won't want to miss future conversations that could transform your approach to leadership and life. Join me next episode as we continue our journey towards building lasting legacies that matter. Remember, it's time to soar towards your legacy.